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Controversial opinions thread

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12 minutes ago, Bacon said:

"Kid A" is one of the best songs off the album and possibly one of their best songs period.

It's been my favorite Radiohead song for over a decade. ?

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, devilhood said:

They took away the unique exuberant magic that existed in Lift; certainly the magic that made them think "Oh crap we have another potential Creep on our hands". The song is still good, but it drags a lot more. The production is very dry. I can't help but fall in love with the 96 performances every single time I see them on YT. It's funny that they internally hyped up a song, gave it a level of grandiosity so high it meant they preferred to avoid it. Thom or Ed's opinion? I know they mentioned something along these lines recently, and that's why we're lucky to have this modern rendition of the song. I just wish it was pulled out of the archive like I Promise.

I'm not a big fan of Lift, because I'm not a fan of anthemic Bendsy Radiohead, but there's no doubt that the version of Lift that was supposed to exist is the 1996 version, and it's a tragedy it was stillborn.

The version released on OKNOTOK is so blatantly a half-hearted studio take - it even has blatant mixing errors - with nothing of what made the song so beloved in the first place. I sincerely doubt they recorded any better version, though. If I were them I would have thought twice about releasing it at all, let alone pushing it as a "single" with a music video. It was a very odd choice.

Certainly it wouldn't have worked on OKC and I'm not surprised it got dropped once the rest of that material began to emerge. But I wonder if it could have been made a good one-off single or EP between The Bends and OKC. Just to get it done and out there. (I'm no fan of I Promise but I think they should have released it as a B-side, because it's not going to get any better than the version they had.)

It's interesting to wonder that it might have done to Radiohead had they released it, as Ed speculates. If it had indeed been the pop smash everyone expected, would it really have been so bad? It might have made it harder for them to pursue the infinitely more interesting places they ended up going. The hype around OKC nearly detonated Thom's brain, after all, so if they'd shifted CDs back then on the scale of the Smashing Pumpkins, the sheer amount of publicity and increased moneymen might have pushed him off a cliff in Cornwall.

Edited by Duff
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17 hours ago, Duff said:

I'm not a big fan of Lift, because I'm not a fan of anthemic Bendsy Radiohead, but there's no doubt that the version of Lift that was supposed to exist is the 1996 version, and it's a tragedy it was stillborn.

The version released on OKNOTOK is so blatantly a half-hearted studio take - it even has blatant mixing errors - with nothing of what made the song so beloved in the first place. I sincerely doubt they recorded any better version, though. If I were them I would have thought twice about releasing it at all, let alone pushing it as a "single" with a music video. It was a very odd choice.

Certainly it wouldn't have worked on OKC and I'm not surprised it got dropped once the rest of that material began to emerge. But I wonder if it could have been made a good one-off single or EP between The Bends and OKC. Just to get it done and out there. (I'm no fan of I Promise but I think they should have released it as a B-side, because it's not going to get any better than the version they had.)

It's interesting to wonder that it might have done to Radiohead had they released it, as Ed speculates. If it had indeed been the pop smash everyone expected, would it really have been so bad? It might have made it harder for them to pursue the infinitely more interesting places they ended up going. The hype around OKC nearly detonated Thom's brain, after all, so if they'd shifted CDs back then on the scale of the Smashing Pumpkins, the sheer amount of publicity and increased moneymen might have pushed him off a cliff in Cornwall.

The mixing errors, or what seem like errors, could be entirely subjective. I feel like that little ditty at the beginning is an out-take of a song that spawned the idea for Lift, almost like a nod. It really doesn't belong though. Another thing that bugs me is the synth/strings build up, and the way it abruptly ends. It doesn't thrust into the chorus and create an expected glorious explosion. It's mildly anti-climatic but it works PERFECTLY with the video, and it's actually kinda humorous. That's certainly one way to hide a mistake, unintentional or not.

Lastly, the tempo is decidedly slower than the original performances. The studio track runs at 78 BPM, but the live performances are at an average of 84 BPM. It might not seem like a lot, but it makes a huge difference with the flow of the song. It was enough to make me want to do my own edit, so without further ado I'll share it with you guys so I don't feel so greedy.

ere is a list of things wot I tinkered:

  • Ed's left channel guitar isn't so nuts
  • Jonny's amazing shit is a bit louder
  • Ed's beautiful vocals are clearer
  • Thom's vocals have gone through a mild de-esser
  • The mix is generally less muddy
  • I added some vintage plate reverb so the song isn't dry like an arid landscape
  • THE SPEED IS 8% FASTER, though bare in mind that it isn't easy to accurate stretch transients in a full mix, so the complicated sections can seem slightly jittery

https://instaud.io/2vhN

Lift would have been a great standalone single, or maybe the title track of an EP. I Promise and Man o War could have been flung onto the record too, and then all they'd need is the lingering studio version of TLW and possibly a bonus live track (or the alt version of Nude and Paranoid Android). Bang, there's the sexy, raunchy EP we never had. Radiohead are careful with how they churn records out, because they are meticulous and definitely not short of material. During the OKC era I feel like their mission for musical perfection hit its highest, or maybe it was just Thom.

Maybe one day we'll get what we've all been wishing.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, devilhood said:

The mixing errors, or what seem like errors, could be entirely subjective

Sure, in the sense that anything anyone likes or doesn't like is ultimately subjective - but the way the rhythm guitar jumps channels in the intro is a flub for sure, and the kind of thing that really ought to have been corrected.

Your mix is definitely an improvement, especially the tempo correction. You should post it on Reddit if you haven't already. The kids'd love it.

Edited by Duff
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Posted (edited)

Lotus Flower kind of sucks (for Radiohead)

Edited by Limbo
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16 hours ago, devilhood said:

It was enough to make me want to do my own edit, so without further ado I'll share it with you guys so I don't feel so greedy.

This sounds great! Thanks for sharing it.

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3 hours ago, Limbo said:

Lotus Flower kind of sucks (for Radiohead)

I really don’t like the drum sound on this song (studio version anyway). 

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18 minutes ago, Ambrose Chapel said:

I really don’t like the drum sound on this song (studio version anyway). 

Yeah it's lifeless. I fail to believe that any mastering was done to the kit aside from achieving a dry, clean initial sound. The snare needs more crack and the tambourine is annoying. It honestly sounds like a loop track because it lacks any kind of dynamics. I like the guitars during the chorus, and how they go up a notch, but the drums absolutely do not reflect the energy, neither in how they were performed or how they sound.

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29 minutes ago, devilhood said:

Yeah it's lifeless. I fail to believe that any mastering was done to the kit aside from achieving a dry, clean initial sound. The snare needs more crack and the tambourine is annoying. It honestly sounds like a loop track because it lacks any kind of dynamics. I like the guitars during the chorus, and how they go up a notch, but the drums absolutely do not reflect the energy, neither in how they were performed or how they sound.

Are you guys talking about Lotus Flower or Lift?

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2 minutes ago, Duff said:

Are you guys talking about Lotus Flower or Lift?

Hahaha oh crap. I was talking about Lift, but for some reason I failed to read that @Ambrose Chapel wrote Lotus Flower ?

 

 

 

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I had already written a long, brilliant post taking down your bizarre claims about the Lotus Flower drum sound. Eventually I decided your opinions were too bananas even for the Controversial Opinions thread and realised there had to have been some mistake.

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14 minutes ago, booger bear said:

Pawl's videotape is better than the studio version.  

That remix seems to be the most-played every month on my SoundCloud. I just wish my original material was up there too :classic_laugh:

First person to find the easter egg of me saying "YARRRRRR!!" in a pirate voice on a song from one of my albums gets a SPECIAL SECRET REMIX that I've never released :classic_ninja:

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25 minutes ago, booger bear said:

Pawl's videotape is better than the studio version.  

Link?

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31 minutes ago, Bacon said:

Link?

It is somewhere here, except that it's not this album.

Shhhhhh...

 

 

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6 hours ago, devilhood said:

Hahaha oh crap. I was talking about Lift, but for some reason I failed to read that @Ambrose Chapel wrote Lotus Flower ?

 

 

 

?

i stand by my controversial opinion that the lotus flower drum sound is not Radiohead at its best. 

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18 hours ago, Ambrose Chapel said:

?

i stand by my controversial opinion that the lotus flower drum sound is not Radiohead at its best. 

I actually like the janky bleep blop jiggedy of it all. It's a pretty good flippety flop of a beat.

Apparently Ed played drums on Lift

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Here’s what’s cool about the Lotus Flower drums:

  • it’s a one-bar loop, which is just cool unto itself
  • it flips - it’s placed in different places in the bar at different parts of the song (mainly verse and chorus) so sometimes the first snare is on the 4, and sometimes it’s on the 3
  • the first and second snare of each bar are tuned differently, creating a neat up-and-down, back-and-forth effect
  • it owns
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This is main difference between Atease and Reddit, Atease, will spend pages on monitor mixes, mixing errors, drum sounds, etc and reddit spends pages on weird fan art, jeweled case cd collections, and just strange imaginary interactions with bands, and emoting weirdly over hearing a song or attending a concert.

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23 minutes ago, Robjonas said:

This is main difference between Atease and Reddit, Atease, will spend pages on monitor mixes, mixing errors, drum sounds, etc and reddit spends pages on weird fan art, jeweled case cd collections, and just strange imaginary interactions with bands, and emoting weirdly over hearing a song or attending a concert.

This is true. 

However this used to be the home of Cheesecake, a thread where people would invent strange erotic fan-fic of the band and sometimes their children. While they were still children.

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8 minutes ago, Grunthos The Flatulent said:

 

This is true. 

However this used to be the home of Cheesecake, a thread where people would invent strange erotic fan-fic of the band and sometimes their children. While they were still children.

Thank heavens that has been erased from the internet.  

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Videotape (studio version) > Videotape (2006)

True Love Waits (studio version) > True Love Waits (acoustic)

Nude > Big Ideas

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